MTA Chair and CEO Janno Lieber appeared on The CATS Roundtable to discuss safety, fare discounts, and riders returning to the subway system.
A transcript of the interview appears below.
John Catsimatidis: The most important thing to opening up New York City again, the MTA system, the subway, the buses, with us today, is Janno Lieber. The new MTA Chairman and CEO. Good morning, Mr. Lieber. How are you today?
Janno Lieber: I'm great. Great to be with you, John.
Catsimatidis: You got one of the most important jobs in New York City because if we could open up the subways, open up the buses and get people to work, it goes hand in hand with opening up our city. And I understand last week Kathy Wyles said to me you were at an all-time high, that 50% of the people that used to be riding subways. Tell us where we are.
Lieber: So actually, we’ve even gotten better since last week, John. We're up at like 57% of pre-COVID numbers. We had a record a couple of days in a row this week, a record post Omicron. We're pushing back to the levels on the subways this is where we were at before Omicron. On the commuter railroads, we've already surpassed the pre-Omicron numbers so things are heading in the right direction. New Yorkers are ready to go back to work, but more important, they're just ready to use mass transit. Because what we're seeing is, nights and weekends when travel is discretionary, the numbers are even higher, percentage wise, so that's a great sign. New Yorkers are ready to ride mass transit when they have somewhere to go.
Catsimatidis: The other big item that New Yorkers worry about is safety in the subways. More people want to ride the subways, more people want to ride the buses, tell us about safety because the numbers have been going wacky lately. As I advocated to Governor Hochul and I advocated to Mayor Adams, instead of having those gates, so nobody gets pushed over – and that's $7 billion – let's put a cop in every subway, let’s put a cop on every platform like we had 30 years ago when we had problems. What say you?
Lieber: You know what? I think you're onto something, John. I have been advocating before Eric Adams came in, I was pushing the city, City Hall, to move the cops that are in the system, and we got over 1000 transit cops. I want to see them on the platforms and on the trains. That's where the riders feel vulnerable. That's where the riders are feeling like the situation had deteriorated a little bit. Eric Adams heard me, he heard New Yorkers. He agrees, put the cops on the trains and on the platforms. Whether we can put one on every train and every platform is still an open question, but the principle has been embraced by City Hall. Remember, Adams was a transit cop. He actually believes that it's important for people to see uniformed officers on the train and elsewhere in the system. That's a huge step forward that we really welcome. The bigger question that you're raising though is, where are we with safety? There's no question that coming out of COVID as we are, and thank God, the level of subway crime has gone up, slightly. Most of it is people taking cell phones and stuff like that, which is bad, but the thing that really is annoying the riders and concerning them is the presence of people who are acting erratically, who have mental health issues, and on that front too, the Governor and the Mayor have teamed up and said they're going to attack the problem. Now, it's going to take a little while to get all those mental health professionals trained and deployed, and in the system, but there is a commitment from City Hall and Albany to deal with the issue aggressively. In the meantime, I am going to continue speaking out on riders’ behalf because we just cannot accept the situation where riders are being attacked, or even just made to feel really vulnerable in the New York City subway. It's essential to our economic recovery that people feel comfortable riding the system, as you said, John.
Catsimatidis: Now the other thing I said to Mayor Adams, I said, as people jump the turnstile, these are the same people that commit the crimes. I understand poor people, I’m poor, I'm gonna jump the turnstile, but, a large percentage of them are the ones that commit the crime and under the broken law theory of the NYPD and Commissioner Bratton at the time and Commissioner Kelly, the guy who jumps the turnstile is the one that's going to hold up somebody in the train or do something bad in the train. What do you think? I mean, this is a major situation, can we change the turnstiles where you cannot go in unless you actually pay? What’s your solution?
Lieber: Yeah, I think you're on to an important issue, John. Fare evasion has gone up. There's no question that during COVID, when there are fewer people on the trains and the whole, you know, our systems broke down a little bit and there's more fare evasion. I'm concerned about two things. One, what you say is exactly right, which is the people who are beating the fare are frequently the people who are doing other bad stuff in the system, so we want to interdict them. The other thing is, I want to make sure that the vast majority of New Yorkers who pay the fare don't get demoralized and feel like they're being treated like suckers because somebody is pushing by for free right next to them. So, we are asking -- the mayor has already spoken out about it -- he's also for more aggressive fare evasion. And I got to tell you, John, the number of fare evasion summonses and tickets that have been written by the police has gone up dramatically since Mayor Adams came into office. You know, we're not, again, our purpose is not to put people in jail, to criminalize it – we just have to reestablish the principle of “you got to pay the fare.” And you're right, we'll catch some bad guys if fare evasion is enforced.
Catsimatidis: Well, you know what, Mr. Chairman, if I was the Commissioner or Chief in charge of the subway system, those fare evaders, what I would possibly do is put them in a local jail for 12 hours because you ran out of desk appearance tickets. In other words, make it really tough on them or something. I know the bail bond law, we have to solve the bail bond law in Albany. The people of the city of New York, the people of the state are getting sick and tired of it. You saw what happened in Nassau County, there were major changes in Nassau County. Todd Kaminsky, who was the author of the bail bond law, went from plus 20 in the November election to minus 20. People are starting to get angry, what do you think the citizens of the city in New York, to speak out to State Senators and State Assembly people to say enough is enough. Eight and a half million people in the City of New York want to be safe. Please keep us safe, not the 3000 criminals that if the 3000 criminals were not here, it would be a safer world.
Lieber: John, you know, the issue that you're talking about is one that there are a lot of strong views on. I am not a criminal justice expert, and I'm not here to lobby for any particular law. All I can do is speak for the riders, which is that they want to see the rule about paying fares enforced. They want to see it enforced on a consistent basis. We also got to make sure that it's enforced in way that’s nondiscriminatory. We don't want a particular neighborhood or community to feel like they're getting more aggressive enforcement. But the bottom line is the vast majority of people who pay the fare have to feel like it's a fair system, and they're not suckers because they pay. They got to see that the rules are being enforced, and I'm counting on the City and the NYPD to do just that. What the legislature and the criminal justice system does with people after that is not my job to dictate, but I'm going to keep pushing for more fare enforcement, just like you said.
Catsimatidis: We have a minute or so left. What else would you like to tell the people in New York? Why they should come ride the subways again?
Lieber: You know what, the thing is New York is coming back to life and you can see it on the subways. We did something that I think is important which is, even though we count on regular fare increases to make us balance the books, we put off fare increases last year, and, thanks to Governor Hochul, we're able to put it off this year as well. And, we've made some fare discounts that ought to attract people back to riding the system. If you tap and go with our new OMNY system, you get free rides for the rest of the week after you hit 12 rides in a single week. We've made the commuter rail system cheaper by having a 20-ticket option for people who are hybrid workers, who are coming to work two or three times a week instead of five days a week. We made the commuter rails much cheaper from Bayside or Jamaica or Woodlawn, Metro-North and Long Island Rail Road inside the city of New York is only five bucks, a hugely discounted ticket on the off-peak. So, we got pricing, we've kept the fare stable, and we're giving discounts, and we want people to come back. That's the way New York's gonna get back in action. You and I both know that the heartbeat in New York is the subways, the bus system, and we're doing a lot to make the bus system faster. That is a priority for me in particular. I just want you to stay tuned because this week it looks like we've hit new highs in almost every one of our railroads, the subways, the commuter railroads, Long Island Rail Road and Metro-North, maybe the bus system too. We'll be putting those numbers out soon, but New York is on the move.
Catsimatidis: Mr. Chairman, Chairman Lieber, thank you so much for your job at the MTA, and you have one tough job, but all New Yorkers stand by your side. We're having Governor Hochul with the Police Athletic League Lunch this March 10, and you're welcome to join us as our guest if you're in New York City, in Manhattan, and God bless you and whatever help you need, WABC stands by your side. I stand by your side, and all New Yorkers stand by your side. Thank you so much and God bless you.
Lieber: Thank you for having me and you know, keep going with the Police Athletic League, John, you and Morgy kept it going all these years, so way to go.
Catsimatidis: I miss Mr. Morgenthau. Thank you so much.
Lieber: Goodbye.